Zoe Switzer has been working with Jeni’s Splendid Ice Creams for over five years. Jeni founded her company with an amazing amount of bravery and entrepreneurial spirit, and now that it’s grown and spread across the nation, Zoe’s helped ensure that Jeni’s original values and vision continue to inspire each and every employee. In this episode, Zoe talks about her role and Jeni’s and how she’s been able to approach HR with a creative and community-driven mindset.
[0:00 – 4:04] Introduction
- Welcome, Zoe!
- Today’s Topic: Combining Quantitative and Experiential Information to Best Serve Your Team
[4:05 – 14:08] Zoe’s Experience at Jeni’s
- Infusing Creativity in Everything You Do
- The Art of Problem Solving for Teams of People
[14:09 – 24:57] How Jeni’s Values Persist as the Company Grows
- Staying Connected with What Makes a Company Human
- HR Can Be Cheerleaders… And Also Many Other Things!
[24:58 – 39:09] What Gets in the Way of HR Teams Meeting Their Company’s Needs
- Asking the Right Experts to Help Solve Problems
- Building a Community
[39:10 – 41:32] Final Thoughts & Closing
- Episode Summary
- Zoe Shares her Closing Thoughts
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Connect with David:
Resources:
Announcer:
Here’s an experiment for you. Take passionate experts in human resource technology. Invite cross industry experts from inside and outside HR. Mix in what’s happening in people analytics today. Give them the technology to connect, hit record, core their discussions into a beaker. Mix thoroughly. And voila, you get the HR Data Labs Podcast, where we explore the impact of data and analytics to your business. We may get passionate and even irreverent, but count on each episode challenging and enhancing your understanding of the way people data can be used to solve real world problems. Now, here’s your host, David Turetsky.
David Turetsky:
Hello, and welcome to the HR data labs podcast. I’m your host, David Turetsky. Like always, we try and find the most insightful people inside and outside the world of human resources to bring you what should be the best practice in all the world around using HR data and insights. Today we have with us Zoe Switzer. From Jeni’s Splendid Ice cream. Hey Zoe, how are you?
Zoe Switzer:
I am wonderful. Hi, David, thank you so much for having me.
David Turetsky:
And as always, we have with us Dwight brown from Turetsky Consulting. Hey, Dwight. Hey, David is Oh, hello, hello. Today, we’re going to have a really fun time. But first I want to tell you a little bit about Zoe first of all, zo loves people. She loves humans. She loves anything relating to creating the causes and conditions to help people be their best at work, and get the most out of work. Zoe has been the chief people officer for two years. But really, it’s five. And before that she was a consultant, an od specialist. One thing you may not know about Zoe, and this is actually really cool is Zoe participated in a 48 hour sleep deprivation study in college in order to pay for a spring break trip to Florida by By the way, but I can’t think of a better thing to do than to invest time in a spring break trip during your college years. Tell us a little bit about it.
Zoe Switzer:
About the sleep deprivation study?
David Turetsky:
Or what you did when you’re on vacation in Florida.
Zoe Switzer:
Wow. I mean, just picture. Any Florida Spring Break trip in college? And that’s probably you already know what you need to know on that. But yes, so deprivation study, I was placed in a recliner in a concrete block room with a television and a deck of cards and a bed. And I was had to sleep at first in order for them to wake me up. And then the 48 hours started. Wow. Then for 48 straight hours, I was not allowed to sleep. I had electrodes on my head. And I had to do IQ testing in video games so that they could assess my performance over the 48 hours. And then I was given a check for $200. I was gleeful about that. And then I took a hike and went to Florida and had a great time.
David Turetsky:
Did you sleep first before you went to Florida?
Zoe Switzer:
I slept a lot first? Yes.
David Turetsky:
Oh, great. That’s awesome.
Zoe Switzer:
Yeah, I think it was not something I’d ever want to do. Twice. But I’m glad I did it one.
David Turetsky:
Well, it was definitely something that we now know about you. I don’t think anybody else I’ve never told that story before. So it really is something nobody else knows, outstanding. Today, our topic is very fascinating. In fact, it’s one of those reasons why we love having chief people officers in the podcast, which is that while we may swim in a world of data, and especially from where you are, you have a ton of data. Because you’re retail shops, you sell ice cream. So you have a lot of data about how the ice cream gets sold, how it gets made. And the entire basically lifecycle. One of the fun things, though, is you can’t actually get great data without actually having great insight. So today, what we’re going to talk about is, the analytics may be great, but it’s useless without context. Zoe the first question is, how long have you been at Jeni’s and what have you seen around your use of HR data? And how has the company changed in using that.
Zoe Switzer:
So I’ve been at Jeni’s for about five and a half years, and I’ve seen a lot of things that are really important to us stay the same. And for that I’m very grateful. So Jeni founded this company almost 20 years ago on talent hustle in guts and on world’s greatest ingredients and on cutting no corners, and on being a pink haired company founder with no business background, and one of her proudest accomplishments was the courage to quit college when she knew it was time to quit college. And I just love it that one of the things she’s so proud of is that she took a leap and took a hike from something that a lot of people said was the right answer. And so one of the things that we get the benefit of being founded upon is bravery and And entrepreneurial spirit and all of that. So I get to swim in a company that’s built on that. And for that, I’m grateful I enjoy that every day. And that hasn’t changed. And that we can talk more about how I think I have a role in making sure that now that we’re big enough that Jeni can’t be everywhere she used to everywhere, but she can’t be everywhere, then how do I have a role as a chief people officer in perpetuating all the good stuff that she’s starting all that time ago. So we can talk more about that. But what have I seen change? I mean, I’ve seen so we’ve almost doubled our scoop shop number, which wonderfully for me means we’ve almost doubled our opportunity to employ human beings. And so that makes my job even twice as satisfying, because that’s twice as many people I get to serve, and our team gets to serve. So when I started, I couldn’t do most of what our company needed from an HR standpoint by myself with a whole bunch of partnership, both thought partners and doing partners. And so I don’t want to imply I did anything alone, but I just didn’t have a very big team. So we’ve had to increase the scope of our team and the size of our team so that we can meet the needs of the humans, we’ve had to come up with scalable ways of seeing the needs of the company, which is where data analytics comes in, I used to be able to figure out what someone needed because I could know and talk to a significant portion of our team across the country by myself or I staying connected to my peers. That is not a possibility anymore. So now I have to come up with scalable ways to see what are the needs of the people in the company and the teams and the buildings, etc, etc. And then identify those needs and try to meet those needs and come up with strategies and plans for meeting those needs. And it used to be able to be a little bit of chaos, a little bit of organization, and a nice in between mix of just a lot of hustle and a lot of in person contact, right? hustle no longer can overcome not having the right data, like I used to be able to hustle hard enough, if I wish, I could figure out another way to figure out what I needed. I can’t hustle that hard anymore. And frankly, that’s not even healthy to try to do it that way. There are just a lot of wonderful tools at our fingertips. That when used, in my opinion, effectively, in my opinion effectively means you use it to serve better you use it to keep on narrowing your focus so that you’re doing the right things for the individuals, the teams, the company. And I also think build Personally, I think in terms of buildings, too, because I can see the shop and I can see the 18 people that come there every week to work and right. So meeting their needs is our job meeting the company’s needs is our job. And we can’t discern what those needs are unless we have the analytics to help us figure it out.
David Turetsky:
But one of the things that’s really clear, I think you mentioned early on was the culture is really important. And to the extent that the technology can help you be able to disseminate the culture, as well as not lose that original entrepreneurial spirit, how do you keep the technology aligned with your culture and aligned with where the company needs to go? Because the technology can be used as a hammer. Or it can be used as the conveyance tool to be able to get not only the things done the work done you need but also to help the culture issue as well, right?
Zoe Switzer:
Well, I’ll tell you how I do it. And I keep in mind that Midwestern 47 year old female with one particular perspective on this, and I really want to emphasize that I do not have the only perspective on this. And I’m not even saying I have the right perspective on this. But I think I do have an important one. And one That to me is it’s just how I feel about it. I think things need to be as simple as possible. And we live in a world where we’re swimming in stimulation and information. And so I view my job as perpetually looking at what’s most important, really, and not like what society tells you is most important, or you have 60 inputs and 60 emails in your inbox in the last hour. But like part of my job, and I’m not claiming to do this beautifully at all, but I’m just saying this is my aspiration is to take a deep breath every day and make sense out of an endless list of emails or inputs or people or whatever or opportunities which were fortunate There are endless opportunities in the world sure to really discern what’s the data I need? What’s the focus I should have today? What’s the focus I should perpetuate within the company and the team. And so just continuing to use technology, not so that more is better, not so that I can overwhelm anyone with reports they don’t need but actually picking the really important cool stuff that’s going to give us the insight That helped us say no to a lot of things, and not do the thing that’s going to actually get in the way of that frontline ice cream scooper like, sure, not the person that’s in a scoop shop scooping ice cream. So I better find out ways to know what their point of view is, so that I don’t do something inadvertently, that gets in their way and makes their job any harder or makes their work experience any less positive than it possibly can be.
David Turetsky:
And I think we are stuck in a world where the technology has taken over, except especially email, for example, where you could be drowning in a sea of emails, with the weight of tons of really important questions, really important things really important insights and other things coming at you from all directions. How does one filter to be able to maintain that focus you just talked about?
Zoe Switzer:
I try to learn from I have some of the smartest, most hardworking peers in the whole world, I am so fortunate to work with people who teach me how to zero in on what’s most important in their world. So whether it’s the finance operation here in at Jenny’s it’s our retail operation here at Jeni’s all of them. But I watch them discern what’s important and what can be either back burnered, or what can we say no to and I sit and just study these wonderful smart people that I get to work with. So that’s one thing I say is be around people better than you at lots of things, study what they do, and then do your best, I love that I get the opportunity to do that. I read a lot of books on narrowing the focus, because I think there’s just overwhelming evidence to say that if we don’t, then we don’t reach our potential. When you try to be too many things to too many people, you make one inch of progress instead of six miles of progress on something that really matters. And I guess, I think it’s so easy in human resources to get focused on sort of the wrong thing. Like if I get swept up in sort of this kind of Human Resources that’s like, it’s a kind of this is gonna sound overly dramatic, but like fear based, protect one entity from another entity conduct HR. Yeah, if you get swept up in that, then you behave that way. And when you behave that way, you actually create more of what you don’t want. But it’s really easy. And I get why people do that. Because including me, because that’s a natural tendency, when your job is to deal with humans who are all different, every situation is different, our needs are different. And it’s really complicated sometimes. So you sort of have to eclipse all that complexity, to get to actually this other sort of the simplicity on the side of the complexity, which is like, between the three of us like Dwight, David, Zoe, they’re very consistent needs that you can stay grounded in like, we all need respect and mutual respect, we all need to feel like what we’re doing matters, we all need to have a way to voice something, if we’re unhappy about it that’s constructive and productive. Like, those needs don’t vary. So I guess, I do think Human Resources has a job to just really keep zeroing in on those things that are consistent across almost all human beings, like respect, conflict resolution in a way that builds trust versus destroys it really, like positive, fair, positive ways of identifying issues. So you can go in and help people solve them. So I tried to say no to the things that are sort of by default, I’m so busy, I’m so stressed. This is what I’m spending my time on. And say yes, to take a deep breath, keep a big picture perspective, what do humans need, and oh, by the way, I’m not only a human, but I’m also an employee, right? If I can tap into what I need, and I’m making sure I’m having a lot of conversations with a lot of other people to understand their perspective, then I’m probably going to stay pretty connected to what others need as well.
David Turetsky:
So Zoe one of the things I think is fascinating is you live in a company that comes from a person and that person’s values. Tell us how you keep Jeni’s values alive as the company grows and expands. And you can’t be and Jenny can’t be everywhere all at once and talk about how those values are the same or a little different from what you just talked about being simple and, and reaching to the person and getting what the person needs.
Zoe Switzer:
Great, thank you in terms of keeping her values alive and our it’s a privilege like when I started here, it was as a consultant. And on day one doing a consulting project, I left here and went home and I said to my husband, okay, I’m going to prove to them that I don’t need to be a consultant there. I need To be an employee, because I felt like a fish that had jumped in just the right water for me. And as I talked about simplicity, and really staying connected to the humaneness of running a company was like that. But yes, I think I’m wired for that. I like simplicity, I like people. So that’s just, that’s why I like doing what I get to do. And when I came here, and I’m talking to, for example, Jenny about what she would want in this new person that would be part of her Human Resources team. And she says, Well, one really important piece for me would be to infuse creativity in absolutely everything you do. And I was thinking, I’ve never had anyone tell me that they want me to infuse creativity in human resources. And I noticed what a relief it was to hear this, but I actually wanted that. And our CEO, John Lowe, we had a meeting once with a vendor, who made a comment that was very trying to think of the best way to put this. So clearly showed a lack of understanding of gender equity. Oh, no. And we had six months of time into developing this relationship with this vendor. And in that moment, I watched our CEO, say to the vendor, I will throw away six months of work if you actually mean what you just said, and aren’t willing to re evaluate and re examine our approach go forward. And it was in the middle of a meeting, where a lot was on the line, and I watched our CEO really do the right brave thing. And so my point in that is that is how our leaders are wired and your question of how to perpetuate that. I do think I’m very responsible for making sure our hiring practices continue to hire people who are oriented around why equity and awareness of equity related issues is important. hiring people who understand that dealing with conflict head on can be done in a direct and kind way. Yeah, well, then it’s not an either or, I’m like, when I hire, of course, you have to hire for technical skills, can they technically do any job? Sure. I call it head heart gut hiring. It’s like, do they have the intelligence in the background to do the job? But do they have the heart to bring into the work environment what you need them to? And then gut wise? Do they have that like intuition and discernment to make great choices? When things get really hard and hairy? Or they’re super mad about something? How are they going to handle themselves in that conference room? So those are the ways the hiring and prioritization and what to say no to those are the ways I think I have a responsibility to keep on trying to perpetuate the good things that got started a long time ago. And your question of Am I are those values the same or different? It’s those are, that’s why I think I felt at home when I got here.
David Turetsky:
It’s amazing to find a leader that you will align with in such a way that instead of worrying about what they think that they’ve hired you, and they trust you, and as you mentioned, the entrepreneurial spirit, that they believe in you to the extent at which you’re espousing their values, because you live their values, and there shouldn’t really be a question. HR sometimes gets treated as the COP of trying to police what the culture is, instead of trying to develop those skills to have managers also understand them fundamentally, what are the values that we bring? So that it is a question of interview skills? Or a question of do you really believe them? And if you don’t, then you’re going to hire the wrong people who don’t espouse our values. And therefore, they’ll probably crash and burn alongside of you.
Zoe Switzer:
Yeah, I would say that here, I don’t get treated so much like a cop as much as they like I’m expected to as I should be, and I want to be like a facility facilitator have all the right stuff, a perpetuator of all the right stuff. So that’s my aspiration is to do that. And then like a seeker of all the right stuff, we don’t i don’t know a lot of things. We don’t have all the right answers internally, and recognizing when we don’t know what we don’t know how to go find it and help people. And, you know, I used to say to people, like, if drama walks in hrs door, then what comes out should be less dramatic and more constructive and productive and helpful. And so I think that’s it’s one sometimes it just is one room at a time, one person at a time, but trying to have a positive impact every opportunity you get.
David Turetsky:
I’ve also heard to that extent, I’ve also heard that HR has been asked to be cheerleaders as well, and to rah rah and rally the troops. And I’ve also worried about that, because we’re not cheerleaders. What we are, is we are the people who helped develop the right kind of people and hopefully develop the right processes to ensure That those people have the voices to be cheerleaders for themselves. And while we may actually start the cheer, hopefully all of the employees are doing it anyways. And we haven’t hired the wrong people, or we haven’t given them the processes of the learning or the other tools necessary to do that for themselves.
Zoe Switzer:
I agree with everything you said. And I think it under values, what we can do in HR to call us cheerleaders. And at the exact same time, I would say, I do think having an optimistic or wired HR team so that we can see the good on the hard days and weeks can see the good in a person who’s struggling or a situation, it’s tough. Sure. that I would say is the part of that that I really think is an important part of our role.
David Turetsky:
Right? No, but the only thing I wanted to clarify, I wasn’t saying we can’t be cheerleaders, we just shouldn’t be thought of as being that’s the only thing that we do. Actually, one of my leaders once gave me a pompom because I was in HR. And I was the head of Comp, and HR and payroll. And he wanted me to be the cheerleader for the company. And I said, Yeah, that’s great I Am, but recognize the fact that I’m also developing people who will then make those processes happen throughout. So it’s not just about me, it’s about all of us, all of us, not just you, CEO, but everybody. And too often I think HR gets kind of pushed into that thing. But you’re right, I actually love it when HR can be a beacon of hope, and have that kind of optimistic opinion. But don’t make us force us to pay you that. Well enable us to be that
Zoe Switzer:
We hardly have time for the cheerleading when are we really just party planners? Isn’t that well?
David Turetsky:
Yes, party planners, and then cops to make sure people don’t get too drunk at those parties. Right?
Dwight Brown:
Exactly. Yeah.
Zoe Switzer:
No, I, I think it’s we can be really optimistic without ever doing the gimmicky stuff that people don’t like from HR. And I understand that don’t there, there is a lot of gimmicky stuff out there, like, hey, let’s laminate this card. Because that’s gonna make us really successful. It’s like, how about not? How about we don’t move up. And so I think there’s just that perpetual, like what not to do is just as important as what few things we can do.
Dwight Brown:
You know, the hitting on what you hit on David, with the tool sets, it’s I oftentimes think of Human Resources being the Home Depot or the lows of the corporate world or the business world. And you go in, you provide a toolset, but at the same time with what we’ve been talking about with the cheerleaders or the party planners, the I can go into Home Depot and say, Hey, here’s what I’m trying to do. Can you help me understand how to do and what’s the right tool, and I think that’s the thing is not just providing the tools, it’s also providing that advice that support and that help along the way.
Zoe Switzer:
I recently said to someone tell me one other career choice where you’re gonna have the word generalist in your title. We’ll see can maybe there is, but the reason we have generalist in our actual titles, is because you have to know 1000 things. And I had a wonderful mentor, once I said to him, teach me everything that you had to learn the hard way. So I don’t have to learn it as hard as you in such a hard way. And he said, lean on your experts never tried to be a leader in human resources and know everything, and instead have 10 people way smarter than you are, he dial. And so I do that. And I do have like, way more than 10 people smarter than me on speed dial, and I’m so fortunate to have them and I call them constantly, and I’m unapologetic about it.
David Turetsky:
And I think that’s what separates a good leader from an outstanding one is that they understand when to say, I don’t know, let’s call, let’s call this person, let’s dial a friend. Because too often. And in the consulting world, we deal with this all the time. Why don’t you know the answer? Because there are a million other answers I can give you. But I don’t know this one, but I will get it back to you. And the best answer I’ve ever given is, I don’t know. I will find out for you and I’ll get back to you as soon as I can.
Dwight Brown:
We’re all so scared to give that answer. It’s a frightening thing.
Zoe Switzer:
But it indicates genuineness, open mindedness, lots of possibilities, and the world needs all those things.
Dwight Brown:
Exactly. And confidence.
David Turetsky:
You can only be confident if you actually know the truth, or you know the the answer, and that’s why I totally agree with you.
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David Turetsky:
So Zoe When you think of HR teams and being able to optimally meet the needs of the company, what do you think actually gets in the way of HR actually being able to do what the company needs?
Zoe Switzer:
Number one, I think what gets in the way is thinking that we are paid to protect the company from the human beings that work in it. Because the company is the human beings that work in it, and I am a human being that works in it. And it’s destructive to have a mindset that is stuck in that place, I think the best way, and I’ve been fortunate enough to find and hire and now I get to work with individuals who are wired not that way, in terms of thinking about protecting the company from the humans. Instead, I think HR serves best and is optimally effective when you’re wired to think about how can we best scaffold and support the humans in reaching the goals of the company because the goals of the company are the goals of the humans. So for example, I can go talk to a 20 year old scooper in an ice cream shop, and say, Tell me something that we could do that, and it would make us a better employer. Okay. So when I used to ask that question, I always expected that they would say something personal, like pay me more, or give me more time off or something like that. But almost 100% of the time, when I asked that question, their answer is actually something I can do that can help them serve the customer better. So they might say, like, I’d say, Tell me one thing that can make us a better employer. And they’ll say, well, I’ve had so many employee or so many customers come in who want more chocolate options, because they’ve got kids, I wish we had chocolate more reliably available, so that I never have to disappoint a kid that walks in, right, thinking to myself, what a cool world and what a cool job I get to have. When I asked the question about how I can make your life better from an employment standpoint, and you’re trying to tell me make sure I can do the thing you want me to do. Like, that’s an amazing thing.
Dwight Brown:
It is, right? It really is. It speaks to the to the company and the culture of the company, because it shows you that they’re very focused on that customer, here’s what will make my job as an employee easier is satisfying this customer and making the kid happy. And there’s a lot of companies where that kind of culture does not get passed through whatsoever.
Zoe Switzer:
I agree. And I think it’s part of why I appreciate being here, it was Jeni’s enjoyment of handing ice cream cones to people that made her want to just keep doing that and made her want to build a company that would do more and more of that, we’re really lucky, we kind of do get to do something that is a lot more fun than a lot of other things like creams are beautiful, they taste amazing. The cones smell really good, we have fun places to be. And we generally have reasonably happy people coming in who want ice cream. And like all of that is a set of conditions that I don’t, I don’t want to take for granted even for a second. And then we attract applicants who are interested in being around reasonably happy people and serving them something that is intended to bring them joy, so on. And so I think we’re sort of set up for something that I consider a real privilege.
David Turetsky:
Yeah, if you think about the mission of the company, is to spread joy, how do you spread joy, by that interaction that kid has, with the moment that they anticipate tasting, this thing that they love to do, and that their folks have had whatever strife or whatever issues they have in their personal lives, disappears for that moment, they get to touch that ice cream, they get to lick it, they get the feel that joy in their stomachs on their tongues for that one moment. And then what happens, they take it in, they feel wonderful, the scoopers and everybody who are there, provide that outstanding experience. And then they walk out thinking that the next time they’re going to be there. And the next time they’re going to experience that how much joy that must give not only to the people in the shop, who are doing the scooping, but also that those kids, those people, the parents who love to have that experience,
Zoe Switzer:
And I get to stand in a shop and watch so many different scenarios. So like, you watch people on their first date, you watch people who’ve been partners for 60 years, and they can’t stand the sight of each other, but they just had some joy by combining ice cream with each other. You see, I mean, really almost any scenario under the sun and the truth of it is when I started here, I expected to think that the building community part of the mission was like nuts. I get it. Okay, that’s nice. We like to come up with a big higher purpose so that we can all feel connected. I understand how that works. But I didn’t appreciate kind of how it works. But when I stand in a shop and i and i do regularly because I also get it. I am one of our customers and one of our employees by stand in the shops regularly from both standpoints. Sure. perspectives I watch people have something interesting and joyful to talk to one another about and connect about. And they leave different than they walked in. And I mean, I know that just sounds like a kind of, like, I hate this phrase, but drank the Kool Aid or something like that I’m, I’m serious, like, I watch it all the time. And that’s wonderful. Like, the world needs reasons to be together excuses to be together for a positive reason. And we like to give people an excuse to be together for a positive reason.
David Turetsky:
You know, getting back to one of the topic areas about data and insight, how do you glean some kind of insight from this? How do you because you can’t give an NPS survey to a kid with an ice cream cone. You can’t judge how people feel after the lead, they leave Jeni’s because you’re going to get a variety of responses, like oh my God, that’s the best ice cream ever. And whatever. You may have, oh, my goodness, I’ve just, you know, broken my promise that I’m gonna stay on my diet. Okay, you got some joy out of it? How do you glean insight from the interactions, so that you could make an a better experience because it’s, it’s a tough thing to do. It’s a tough thing to judge.
Zoe Switzer:
You know, the very low tech way of doing it is I just try to physically fly to drive to as many scoop shops as I can and ask questions of the people doing the very important work of handing those kinds of dipping cabinet. And I say, what do you love about how this works? what’s not working as well as you wish it worked? What can we do to be a better employer? What can we do to help you do your job better? So I just asked that question. And that’s not as scalable as it needs to be, which is where the data analytics piece comes in, think about like, if I look at tipping, I might glean some insights about where customer service could be better, or why are our customers tipping less here than there? What does that mean? So that’s a good question. If I look at a turnover report, and I think half turnovers unique there, either uniquely, it’s not happening, or it’s happening a whole lot more like what Okay, well, that’s interesting, why is it different? What’s going on? So it’s like, I think of it like a picture. You know, like, if I have kids, and if you ever had coloring books when I was a kid, and instead kids, you get this black and white line picture, and it’s a bird or it’s a flower or whatever, okay, fine. That’s a great picture. That’s what the analytics give you the opportunity to have a clear picture. And then the human interaction and the getting on a plane, getting in your car, talking to as many people as you can give you the color and the animation that can fill in those, pick that picture so that you have a full understanding as much as possible anyway, both points of view, what’s important to them? What’s really going on? What is the company accidentally doing that gets in the way of their success? What are we doing is supporting their success that we can perpetuate and protect. So that’s why I love this conversation. Because I really do love that conversation about the the complement of it the compliment of the scalability, and efficiency of the analytics. And then you learn more and get the depth that you need with the human to human interaction. And then when you bring those two things together, I think you have a lot of powerful information in order to make pretty good decisions.
David Turetsky:
And in isolation, either side doesn’t tell the full picture. When you bring them together. That’s where the magic happens.
Zoe Switzer:
100%. I think about like, the assumptions I’ve made along the way as a, I’m in my second half of my 40s. I live in Ohio, I’m sitting in a home office. And anytime I start to get closed minded and assume that I know what it’s like to be a 19 year old in our Texas scoop shop, scooping ice cream for those customers, then I need a dose of humility. I don’t know anything. I don’t know one single thing about why I probably ought to get on a plane and fly to Texas and talk to someone and see what’s going on. And I will say though, that’s not to diminish What I do know. And here’s what I mean by that. Like, you don’t ask your 19 year old ice cream scooper in Texas to create your five year strategic HR. Right? Like, that’s not the perspective that person should be asked to bring. And they should but they should share be valued for the perspective they are asked to bring and PS, their perspective should be listened to before I go run and make the five year strategic HR plan.
David Turetsky:
The vignettes they provide give you the color, yes to fill in the colors in that picture that you need to create.
Zoe Switzer:
That’s exactly right. So it’s like a matter of knowing, you know, everyone’s perspective is valuable. And everyone’s perspective is different. Which ones are the right ones for the various things that have to happen in the world. Like if I don’t need to go figure out which scoop is are gonna Normally most the best one for us. And if I act, I know the answers to that, then I’m going to do something inadvertently, that isn’t what the company needs. So knowing who to go to for what?
David Turetsky:
That’s very insightful. So thank you.
Zoe Switzer:
Can I tell one more story? Of course, you may. So I used to work for Goodwill, Columbus. And it’s an organization that serves people with disabilities and other barriers to successful employment. And my heart was just full every day from being there and seeing these people devoted to, they don’t care about disability, they care about ability, they don’t care about what your past looks like they care about how can I support you right now and and have successful life going forward? And I just can’t say enough about all of that. So I’m standing in one of our donated good stores at the time, like a Goodwill, and I’m like, Oh, yeah. And this woman says that we’re trying to come up with a new process for the employee discount, because the current one takes seven minutes. And then non employee paying customers might set their donated goods that they’ve selected down and walk out of the store. And she said, I’ve worked for 20 years at this register, would someone please ask me what the employee discount process should look like? Because I keep getting these executives who don’t work at the register telling me what the process should be. And I had that like, kind of two by four upside the head moment of like, Why go find the person with that expertise. And in that case, she was the expert. Yeah. And so I try to remember that. I tried to remember that lesson. She taught me that day in my job, and then keep my eye I feel like at least 70% of my job is to keep running around talking to people with expertise in various things that will help me do my job better.
David Turetsky:
You mentioned the word generalist. And sometimes the word generalist really is chemist. How do you take everything, put it all together and make something beautiful out of it, make something useful out of it? And unfortunately, HR, we kind of pigeonhole ourselves into a generalist meaning, we don’t know anything, we just were, what do they say, Master of None. Yeah, something like that took the problems that we do have our fingers in so many different things. We pull it all together. And there’s beauty in that there is. And so we diminish it. And I think, to our detriment, but there is so much beauty and being able to bring all these disciplines together to come up with whatever the right answer is. And sometimes, and you brought this up before, the simplest answer is typically the best. But unfortunately, a lot of those other experts complicate things. And we just have to make it as simple as possible for the people, especially the ones who execute simple as possible.
Zoe Switzer:
I really appreciate what you’re saying, because I do think it’s easy to diminish it. And I think it’s simple. And also excruciating, Lee difficult and simple, often gets misinterpreted as easy. But in my experience, HR is simple and excruciating ly difficult if you take COVID, a global pandemic. And I think HR has had a unique opportunity during this pandemic to show its chops. Yeah. It’s been everything about people, everything about being able to find human beings to do the work we need human beings to do in order for anything else positive to happen at all, right? That’s all rooted in the field of HR. And we should come with answers and solutions that and they probably are relatively simple, but they’re also very difficult. And it’s often because almost everything that’s human has a paradox to it, and some kind of attention to it between thing. One, an egg and one and there’s this tension. And so HR is running around trying to help all of us as leaders navigate difficult tensions. And so to your point, it can be simple, but I don’t think that should be misinterpreted to be sound like it’s easy, because it isn’t
David Turetsky:
Never, it’s never easy. So Zoe we’ve had a long conversa ion today and a lot of valu in there, we first talked about how you’ve seen your company ch nge over time. And Jeni’s has g own tremendously over those ye rs, we’ve talked about how to eep the values of the company a ive as the company grows, and a it changes, and you’ve talked a out how Jeni’s cultural values re still alive in the comp ny today. And then we talke a little bit about what are he things that should get out of the way so that HR can optima ly grow alongside of the compa y? What else would you like to impart to people before we lea
Zoe Switzer:
I love that question. I think just having this conversation makes me take a step back and appreciate the function of HR a bit more. And since I am in it every day, I think that I’m appreciating it, but I do appreciate this conversation because you’re right, that we have a tendency to diminish it, you’re right that we have a tendency to think it’s easy where you’re right that we have a tendency to get stamped as the cheerleader or the party planner. And, and while I intellectually know that is not the case at all, and that we navigate very difficult circumstances, and if we can do it with love than we do it right. But this conversation made me remember that if we do it with love, we do it right. And that, that in itself is not always easy. And it’s something that I really am grateful to be a part of. So thank you for letting me be part of this conversation.
David Turetsky:
Thank you Zoe. And thank you, Dwight.
Dwight Brown:
Thanks, David. Thank you Zoe. Been great havi g you on the show today. Appr ciate you being here with us. eah, thank you for having me.
David Turetsky:
And thank you all for listening. We really appreciate it. And if you know of somebody who might like the podcast, please forward it to them. And if you like it, please hit subscribe. And thank you for listening to the HR Data Labs podcast. Have a great day and stay safe.
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